Andy Molinsky is a Professor at Brandeis University’s International Business School, with a joint appointment in the Department of Psychology. Andy’s work helps people develop the insights and courage necessary to act outside their personal and cultural comfort zones when doing important, but challenging, tasks in work and life. His research and writing have been featured in top media outlets like the Harvard Business Review, Psychology Today, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and NPR. In 2016, Andy was honored as a Top Voice for LinkedIn for his work in education.
Andy is an accomplished author. His first book, Global Dexterity, received the Axiom Award for Best Business Book in International Business & Globalization and has been used widely in organizations around the world, including Boeing, AIG, the US Air Force Academy, and the Clinton Foundation, among others. His new book Reach was published by Penguin Random House in January 2017. He teaches, consults, and lectures widely to university and corporate audiences.
Andy received his Ph.D. in Organizational Behavior and M.A. in Psychology from Harvard University. He also holds a Master’s Degree in International Affairs from Columbia University and a B.A. in International Affairs from Brown University.
In this episode, Andy and Bryan discuss:
– Why you must exit your comfort zone to expand your abilities
– How exposing yourself to different cultures will allow you to approach situations in unique ways
– The difference between simplification and simplicity, and how it is the key to spreading a message effectively
Stream the full episode:
Transcript:
Bryan Wish:
Andy, welcome to the One Away Show.
Andy Molinsky:
Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.
Bryan Wish:
It’s great to have you here. So I want to dive in, Andy and talk about a one away moment in your life. And I’m curious, as I told you about this kind of on the spot just now, what’s the one away moment that you want to share with us?
Andy Molinsky:
Yeah. I think my one away moment would be going abroad for the first time. I think. I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts, and I grew up in an era that was a pre-internet era, which tells you my age. And I hadn’t traveled much. I mean, I traveled in the U.S. a bit, but never out of the country with my family. Both my parents were born in the U.S. I didn’t have a real multicultural background or anything like that. And I really wanted, when I was in college, I really was enamored by the idea of going abroad. And again, I didn’t even know it was going to entail. I had no idea. I just had that idea. I think I had that wanderlust to try to broaden my perspective, horizons and so on.
And I went to Spain as it turns out. Actually I was originally supposed to go to Russia, but I was studying Russian, but I didn’t have enough Russian language. And that was required back then to have quite a bit of Russian language to go abroad. So I scrambled and I studied Spanish a little bit learned sort of, took about a year of Spanish in college and then went abroad to Madrid. And I mean, I remember landing in Madrid and landing in this busy airport in Madrid where everyone was speaking a different language and every sign was in a different language, in Spanish obviously. And I know today, that’s not such a big aha and I’ve now traveled quite a bit. I’ve lived in different places. But back then it was just this major aha experience for me that there was this whole other world of people, this whole other culture speaking this whole other language and they were getting along just fine. But it was just miraculous that this place existed. So I think that was probably my biggest aha moment that I can think of.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah, no, that’s I know you wrote a book called Global Dexterity, which we can get to, but I find it fascinating. You had this wonder lust. How old were you? What year was this by the way, for context?
Andy Molinsky:
What year? So this is my junior year of college, which was 1989.
Bryan Wish:
Got it. And just, I want to ask a deeper question, but back in 1989 was traveling abroad as big of a thing as it is today?
Andy Molinsky:
No, it was not. To put it in context for listeners, this is pre-fax machine. So there are no smartphones. There was probably an internet somewhere, but it was not an internet that regular people had access to. I remember a friend of mine from college who was majoring in engineering. He had access to the internet in college, but it was not something that commonly people… People didn’t have connected devices. I didn’t get my first computer until junior year of college when I came back from Spain, and that was definitely not a networked computer. It was just a computer that was off… There was no internet really. So yeah, it was not that common. I mean, it was common to study abroad actually in college, but it wasn’t so common to have traveled abroad so much.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. Okay. Well, cool. I really appreciate the context. I think it’s awesome that you made that a priority so early. So I want to go back to something you said growing up wasn’t clearly a lot that travel. Did you inside, within your feeling or intuition, did you maybe sense there was a missing gap or layer to who you were from a discovery perspective? And was education around global topics even in discussion as a kid? I mean, I’m just curious what maybe created that one they’re lust to see a whole new side of the world?
Andy Molinsky:
Mm. That’s a good question, because it wasn’t from the internet. I always liked languages. I was always interested in languages. And when you take a language class in the U.S. you start to learn, it’s not just language, you learn a bit about culture. So then you’re probably starting to watch movies, you’re reading stuff. So you’re introduced to a culture, but of course you’re sitting in a classroom. In the U.S. or whatever country you’re in, you’re sitting in your native country classroom learning about this foreign language. But of course there’s a disconnect because you’re not there. So I think that was probably an inspiration, I would say.
My dad was a professor and he taught people who wanted to become English language teachers in their own countries. And so he would have a lot of foreign students, which again, wasn’t so common in that time. And I remember having potluck dinners at our house when I was a teenager with students of his from around the world coming and bringing these exotic foods. And again, I should also say that the world of food was different. I never had Indian food for instance, which is like one of my favorite foods now. Never had Indian food until after college or during college or maybe at the end of college. So, the equivalent where I lived, the exposure to other food was really like Chinese food, probably a very Americanized version, and then pizza, which I don’t really know whether that’s really a foreign food. So I think that probably the combination of those two things inspired me, I’m guessing.
Bryan Wish:
Interesting, but at the same time, maybe you might have had an interest in curiosity towards language or your father who helped other people become American teachers maybe created an inkling of curiosity, but it wasn’t this world that maybe was so open to you and you felt like you had to go explore and find it for yourself. It’s kind of what I’m picking up.
Andy Molinsky:
Say one more time. You’re saying that it’s-
Bryan Wish:
Well, while you had these curiosities and interests, it wasn’t this perhaps active conversation about worldly events and things of that nature where it created this burning, maybe curiosity and desire for you to say, I really need to go open this up for myself.
Andy Molinsky:
Yeah. I mean, it’s sort of hard to kind of rewind time and rewind time to the extent that you can sort of step inside your mind so many years ago and kind of understand what drove you. I mean, even if you were to do that, it’s not so clear that you’d have access to what’s actually driving you. So I’m not sure why I wanted to go abroad. I do know that it was a fairly normal thing to go abroad in college. So I was probably exposed to that.
And going off to college in the United States, at least, in a lot of other countries, you might live at home and go to college and it might be more of a commuter experience. In the United States we have a lot of colleges where it’s a sort of a four year college let’s say, that where it’s your real first major dose of independence. You’re living on your own. You’re living on a campus with all these people from around the country, some around the world. And so that is a big transition from being at home in high school with your parents. Your world expands to a great degree when you have an in-campus experience. And I suspect that also inspired me maybe to step outside my comfort zone a bit.
Bryan Wish:
Nice. Okay, great. I’m just trying to gain all the pieces here. So you arrive in Spain, correct? Is that’s where you said?
Andy Molinsky:
Yeah.
Bryan Wish:
And you said there were all these languages and I walked into this whole new world. What were some of the first things that you did explore, or you maybe developed insights around as an American journeying to Europe for the first time? Take us back to kind of when you touch down.
Andy Molinsky:
Well, I think one of the earliest thing… I mean there are a variety of things. So the idea that there’s a gap, big gap between the language you learned in the classroom and in your native country and the language that’s used on the ground, it’s different. It’s different in terms of slang, it’s different in terms of speed, it’s different in terms of accents. There’s a lot of difference about a language in action. That’s one thing for sure.
I think the idea I never saw myself as an American before, because it’s sort of like a fish never realizes it’s in water until it’s outside of water. You know, when you’re in your native country forever in your whole life, you never have an experience of being someone from that country really. That’s just where you are. But then when you go to another country and having a passport for the first time let’s say, you’re an American and people see you as an American, and then they attach all sorts of perceptions onto you because you’re American and so on, when that was never an identity that you claimed or an identity that you even felt you had necessarily. And I think that being abroad in that way, sort of exposes you to that facet of your identity, which might have been sort of a latent, hidden part of you. Those are a few things.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah, no, that’s great. I mean, I like what you said a lot about showing up in a new country that wasn’t your own. On that note, can you speak to any discomfort that you felt? Did you feel challenged? Did it feel safe? What were some of the things maybe that you started to notice and realize the gaps of maybe areas that you needed to close in on per se?
Andy Molinsky:
Well, I mean, one of the biggest challenges frankly, was language because I was not fluent in Spanish. I sort of scrambled to learn some Spanish when I realized I couldn’t go to Russia. So I’d taken one year of Spanish, that’s it. Didn’t take Spanish in high school, so I literally took one year of Spanish in college. And so my language level was not great. It was okay. I mean, I like languages and so I was into it, but the idea of having to sort of live your life in a language that you’re not fluent in, not even close to fluent in, that’s a tough one. That was definitely the first layer challenge. You can’t even access other challenges beyond that.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. So, I mean, let’s dive in a little bit further here and because it connects to a lot of things later. How did you go about becoming more fluent in Spanish?
Andy Molinsky:
Well okay, so there is one thing, when you go abroad, you have some choices to make. You can hang out with friends from your own country, or you can try your best to maintain connections and to speak the native language. I mean, you can go abroad as a student and barely ever speak the native language there, depending on what language your classes are in, of course. So I made a distinct effort to try to speak only Spanish. I had an American roommate, but he was also a pretty serious guy too, which was great. And so he also really made an effort to speak only Spanish. And so that was really helpful. I mean, we spoke a bit of English, of course, if we had to, but really trying to speak only Spanish.
And then when you’re there over time, it just sort of like, it starts to… I mean, if you’re working hard at it, it really starts to stick. And I think there’s also something important about learning language in context, in real situations. And I think it becomes more real, and I think it sticks in your memory more, as opposed to learning a word or learning a vocabulary word in a classroom at home. It just becomes sort of like memorizing, like sticking something in your head to memorize for the test, versus learning a real word in context, I think it sticks more.
Bryan Wish:
Super cool. Okay. So for those that don’t know you, sounds like Spain was a bit of the gateway. A gateway to a whole mu a lot more international travel and exploration that taught you a lot of things about management and culture and all these different elements in which you’ve built pretty sound career around. As you began to become more comfortable, and let’s just say fluent with the language, within the context of it, as you kind of look and zoom out a little bit, how have these travel experiences evolved and how have you made them a core tenant of your career?
Andy Molinsky:
Well, I should say that I did a lot of traveling when I was younger, before I got married, before I had kids. Having kids, being married, having a job, having two dogs, I mean, you’re not traveling that much, especially in a pandemic. At least I’m not. Some people are. So I would make a big distinction in terms of phases of life. When I was younger, following being in Spain, I lived abroad for a second time in France, a separate time. I traveled a lot, almost all in Europe. I haven’t traveled very much outside of Europe, but I’ve traveled a lot in Europe.
And so, it’s sort of like it opened the doors. It sort of demystified the notion of being in a place. It also inspired me to like, I’m not such a big fan of traveling to be honest, I think it’s okay. But I like much better to immerse myself, to live somewhere. I think I kind of wish like Airbnbs and the whole sort of digital nomad culture was around when I was younger, because I think I totally would’ve been into that. I mean, it wasn’t, because of course there was no internet really. No internet period. But I think it inspired me to want to really sort of immerse myself, insert myself as much as I could in another place as opposed to just sort of superficially experience it.
Bryan Wish:
Right. It sounds more like you said, deep immersion, right?
Andy Molinsky:
Yeah.
Bryan Wish:
You were very intentional about the way you did it and also the phases of life, which I, which I think I can really appreciate. I mean, let’s speak a little bit to that. I definitely want to hop to some of the work stuff, but when you thought about your immersion, in a sounds like a really intentional way, not just let me superficially go to Prague, go to Venice, go to wherever. But no, let me be intentional. Can you maybe describe some of the ways in which you thought about creating these more immersive sounds like hands on and where you just threw yourself in the culture experiences beyond Spain? How were you thinking about it?
Andy Molinsky:
Well, yeah, I wouldn’t say it’s so fancy or anything. It’s just simply like going somewhere and staying there for a while. It’s really, it’s not much more complex than that. I mean, and you can’t, pretend to really truly know another world, another culture, but at least you can have a more of an extended experience in a place. Like I’d rather be somewhere for two weeks than two days. I’d rather be somewhere for two months than two weeks, et cetera. So I think you can start to get to know a place a bit and have a bit of a deeper knowledge about it. Meet some people. Start to go beyond the experience of being a tourist and try to sort of be, sort of like, I don’t know, a temporary member let’s say of that culture. You’re sort of going through the daily motions and I think that you start to appreciate that place more than you would as a sort of a very short term tourist. There’s nothing wrong with that either, by the way. You can see some cool stuff.
Bryan Wish:
Sure thing. Absolutely. Well, I mean, I think you’re right. It’s more simple than maybe then I was making it out to be. I mean, for you, what got you… I know, so you have the two books. You have Reach and Global Dexterity. What made you form the idea to write Global Dexterity? Why did you think that was such an important topic and what led you to the writing?
Andy Molinsky:
Yeah. So if you fast forward from my earlier experiences living abroad, I ultimately decided to do a PhD. My PhD was an organizational behavior and psychology, and I was interested in culture. So this was in Boston. I simultaneously was, as I was doing my PhD, I was volunteering at a resettlement agency in Boston, where people from the, at the time, former Soviet Union, mostly Russia were coming to the United States and needing to find jobs to support their families. The people who are being served by that organization now are probably not as much from former Soviet Union, but at the time they were. And so I was working pretty intensively with these Russian professionals who were trying to get jobs and they were really struggling.
And I was simultaneously in my PhD studies reading and doing lab studies and doing research about culture. And so I was seeing what was being talked about in the world of academics and then I was sort of seeing it on the ground. And I saw a disconnect, which was that most of the stuff in academics was about understanding cultural differences in some sort of intellectual way. This culture is like this, this culture is like this, this culture is high power distances, culture has lower power distance, and so on. And, and those concepts are important. They’re useful. But what I noticed is that the people on the ground were not being helped by the fact that they could understand some of these broader cultural differences between the U.S. and Russia.
They were struggling because they were trying to put these cultural differences into action. And then when you try to take what you know and put it into action, it introduces a whole set of other challenges, which were sort of psychological challenges of trying to step outside your cultural comfort zone. And that’s what I found so interesting. And so that, it ultimately became the focus of my PhD dissertation and was the focus of a lot of research that I did. Following that in my first academic jobs, that all culminated in the book Global Dexterity, so that’s where that comes from.
Bryan Wish:
Nice. I mean, that’s fascinating. I mean, maybe you picked up on that insight, led you down a bit of a rabbit hole, get a PhD in a closely related topics. So let’s break it down a little bit. I mean, what are some of the core tenets of the book for building a global culture, going into different cultures at a business level? What are some of the things you noticed about different countries and different cultural context that just say an American business owner, CEO or leadership team, would be really important for them to know?
Andy Molinsky:
So what I try to do is I try to help people, whether it’s an executive or a worker or anyone really, could be a student too, try to understand… I try to sort of drill down to specific situations. So you’re trying to motivate your team. You’re trying to have a difficult conversation. You’re trying to speak up in a meeting. You’re trying to make small talk. You’re trying to network. Whatever, it could be, anything. And so in the book, I talk about sort of a concept for understanding what the cultural code is, like a series of dimensions that you can take that situation, making small talk with a colleague let’s say, and you can understand the norms, the rules for that situation in your own culture, in terms of things like formality, enthusiasm, sort of the expected levels of these things, there’s six of them.
And you can compare the code to the same situations code in your culture. And in doing so you can start to understand at the cultural level, what the gaps might be. In other words, in my culture, in this situation, I would tend to show this level of enthusiasm, let’s say. Whereas in this new culture, I need to show this level of enthusiasm. Ah, there’s a gap. But it’s not just the cultural difference that matters. What really ultimately matters is your own personal comfort zone, because you might not be characteristic of your own culture. You might have a very different background or attitudes or experiences from people in your culture. So what ultimately really matters is the distinction between your personal comfort zone in terms of these aspects of the situation and what I call the zone of appropriateness in a new culture. In other words, what’s the standard.
And the standard usually isn’t like the center of an archery target, like the bullseye. Usually there’s some leeway. That’s why I call it a zone. So is there a gap or an overlap between your personal comfort zone and the zone of appropriateness in the new culture, on a bunch of different variables? In terms of like the level of enthusiasm, the level of formality, the level of assertiveness and so on in this situation. If there’s an overlap, great, it’s probably not that hard for you actually, because you can probably do it fairly well, but oftentimes there’s a gap. And then what the gap ultimately results in is oftentimes, one or more psychological roadblocks.
So if there’s a gap between how you’d naturally act and how you need to act, you might feel inauthentic. You might feel resentful about the fact that you have to do this. You might feel incompetent. You might feel that you’re not that good at this and other people can see that you’re not that good at this. You might worry that other people won’t maybe like this version of you. So let’s say in a new culture, you need to act more assertively than you would naturally in your own culture, but-
Bryan Wish:
Where would that be? I’m just curious.
Andy Molinsky:
… Well, let’s say someone from an East Asian culture in the United States working for a big five consulting firm or accounting firm, and they’re sitting around the table and it turns out that the culture of that firm is to sort of debate and discuss in a pretty assertive way, whether we should invest or how should we attack this problem that our client has. And you’re sitting there and in your culture, you would never, ever, ever disagree with what anyone says, maybe in public, but especially a senior person, because there’s a difference in formality and hierarchy in your culture. You also value the harmony of the group. You wouldn’t want to threaten the face of someone by disagreeing with them out loud in public and so on and so forth.
Perhaps also you have a personality that is a more of an, I don’t know, an introverted type of personality. Maybe you are not a very assertive person as well to begin with, so that combined with your cultural background might make you very reticent, extremely reticent to be assertive, but you know that assertiveness is important to achieve your goals in this new culture, which is to be seen as adding value to the team and building your career. And so that might be an example where you feel inauthentic trying to be more assertive. You worry that other people won’t like this version of you. In your mind, you’re filtering it through your own cultural lens. And you might feel very uncomfortable doing this for a variety of reasons. And those are the psychological roadblocks of adapting a cross cultures. And that’s what I focus on in my work, identifying what those are, but also helping people overcome them.
Bryan Wish:
Totally. So I find that fascinating, and I think when you can pinpoint the overlap and you can also pinpoint, help them overcome the gaps, my question to you is maybe on a human development or a psychological level, when someone does overcome the gaps, in what ways do they grow? In what ways do you see the most growth in development at a human level when someone is able to overcome those gaps?
Andy Molinsky:
Well, what I find is that people are best able to overcome them when they use something that I call customization. So the idea is that in both of my books and all my work, I’m not suggesting that people should suppress who they are and sort of act in a different way. What I help people do through my books and my work and all the stuff that I do is help people find a way to be effective without losing themselves in the process.
And so what I find is that people are able to sort of find ways to sort of flex their strategy, to integrate elements of who they are with what they need to do to find sort of creative fusions and blends and hybrids, and just sort of evolve into a style that actually fits them enough and maybe over time fits them a lot and also becomes effective in the situation. So I think that people do tend to grow and realize a lot of things. Oftentimes they realize that they’re more comfortable than they thought they were, that the situation is less scary than they thought it would be. And that they’re more capable and confident as they start to sort of develop this new style.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. That makes total sense. I mean, so it sounds like you’re giving people the opportunity to show up and sounds like belong in their fullest form. And not simply like you said, they don’t have to suppress who they are, but it’s really about evolving who they are, bringing in some of these cultural differences, getting the lay of the land and then making the changes that feel aligned to their values so they can show up better maybe on their own terms.
Andy Molinsky:
That’s exactly right. Yeah. That’s what I try to do, and I think people end up feeling empowered actually.
Bryan Wish:
Totally. Yeah. It’s interesting. I mean, I can share more offline, but it aligns to some of the work we do and how I think about the work we do with people, helping them show up is their full selves. And I really like how you’re approaching it from a global perspective, so-
Andy Molinsky:
Well, I should say also that it’s a global perspective, but it’s also in my book Reach. My book Reach is helping people step outside their comfort zones period, so that’s not a global book. That’s about helping people step outside their comfort zones. And that book was inspired by a lot of people actually who commented on Global Dexterity saying that the essence of this book really resonates with me, but I don’t work globally. Can you write a book that helps me step outside my comfort zone, just in any situation? And that’s what inspired the book Reach.
Bryan Wish:
… Sure. So before we get there, I mean, have you struggled in your life to really step outside your comfort zone? I mean, is it something that is super connected to who you are or an active process that you’re always trying to do? I mean, both books seem very related in certain ways, but for you personally, I mean, I guess the question I have for you is, when are times that you felt the most outside of your own comfort zone?
Andy Molinsky:
Yeah. No, it’s a good question and I definitely have always struggled stepping outside my own comfort zone. Just rewinding to the beginning of our discussion, going abroad was way outside my comfort zone. I had never done anything like that. And it was tremendously scary. I remember I felt like I was jumping off a cliff going, but I still went. And then on a more mundane level for me in college, for instance, I was the kid in class who would never speak up in class. I was always afraid to say something, wondering if I’d say something dumb or wrong, or I think I can really empathize with my students now, actually, because of that.
I remember my first job many, many years ago, I was very uncomfortable speaking in public and giving talks, especially to corporate audiences, because I just didn’t think I had much to offer at the time. This was 20 years ago. And I don’t know, there are lots and lots of examples where I have and just continue to struggle stepping outside my comfort zone. And I think most people do on some level struggle stepping outside their comfort zones. Now what distinguishes people are those who develop the motivation and courage to actually try to do it versus people who kind of avoid and end up crafting their lives in a way that becomes a bit narrower because they’re avoiding ultimately, whether it’s consciously or unconsciously, avoiding situations outside their comfort zones. They ultimately craft a life that’s probably less rich, maybe. Maybe with fewer opportunities because of that.
Bryan Wish:
Mm. Yes. I mean, I love how it ties back to your own story and your own experiences and jobs or speaking in different ways. Do you find that people, when you think of… Do you find any correlation between people who have a lower sense of self worth and a lower, in a less degree, willingness to step outside their comfort zone, do you find any correlation between kind of the two and maybe how stepping outside your comfort zone helps you build worth and confidence?
Andy Molinsky:
So scientifically, I don’t know. From a scientific standpoint, that’s a research question and I don’t know the data, if there’s data about that. But just from a more of an anecdotal personal level, I think oftentimes stepping outside your comfort zone is not a one person activity. I think that’s why mentors and friends and coaches and therapists and parents and teachers, that’s why all these supportive people exist because I think it is hard to notice your blind spots, to get the help that you need to step outside your comfort zone. I think people can have… Well, some people can just do it themselves, but oftentimes it does require the nudge and support of someone. Which is great. I mean, that’s why relationships are so important.
Bryan Wish:
Totally. Yeah. Can’t go through life without good people and opportunities. So Andy, as you’ve been talking, I’ve been thinking about… So I mean, I’ve been on the eight month personal tour and a lot of cultural or different, around out west, and I definitely have ambitions and desires to extend this abroad, but it’s been more of an inside out journey. The travel is more representative of the personal changes and it’s been a lot of stepping outside my comfort zone. And so my question for you is, for people who want to maybe take on the journey to step outside their comfort zone, to want to go abroad and take on the learnings and immerse themselves in a new place, but they’re very scared to start and don’t know maybe the steps to take or the ways to think about it, what would be your advice to them?
Andy Molinsky:
Well, it’s always hard of course, to give generic advice, but I guess what I would say broadly speaking is I tend to think of comfort zones in terms of like there’s your comfort zone, there’s your learning zone and then there’s your panic zone. And so it’s probably for someone like that, it’s probably not the greatest idea to go from their comfort zone, which might be where they’re home, their home base, to their panic zone. To the sort of scariest part of the world where they know no one, are very far and remote, don’t speak the language and so on and so forth, like some extreme example. I mean, I might suggest that someone thinks of an experience that would be more in your stretch zone or learning zone.
Now that could be a place where you speak some of the language or all the language. It could be a place that’s not quite as far, but still is abroad. It could be in another way to make something in a bit more of a learning zone situation, as opposed to a panic zone might be to go with a buddy or a friend or a partner or something. There are a variety of ways to make an experience be in that sort of middle range experience. Because I think that in that middle range experience you’re probably going to stick it out and be able to benefit from all the learning. I think the panic zone experience, there are some people who… You probably hear stories where people go to these extreme experiences and learn tremendous amounts and I’m sure that’s true, but I’ll bet you there’s a lot of people who try something that’s in their panic zone and then basically bail, don’t benefit from any of it. So that’s, I think at a broad level, that’s what I would suggest.
Bryan Wish:
No, definitely some useful tips, Andy. And I think so many people to build on what you just said, desire. They have that thirst and that yearning inside to go do it. I was with someone yesterday and they said, “Yeah, I want to go abroad for a year and do all these different things.” And they mapped it all out and then there’s this hesitation to actually take that leap. And I like what you said, “You felt like you were falling off a cliff.” I think that’s so true, but I think also to your point where the most learning and the most growth happens. Given your experiences building outside your comfort zone and just say your own global dexterity, how do you find those qualities show up in your own life, whether raising your kids, in your relationship with your wife, with teaching, working with different leadership teams, where do you find these internal gifts where you’re able to give them away the most and what does that look like for you?
Andy Molinsky:
Well, it’s different in every domain. With kids I think it is. I think parenting, a lot of parenting is about comfort zones. Whether it’s stepping outside your own comfort zone as you’re parenting or helping your kids and nurturing them and providing them with opportunity, support structure, experiences that sort of at a age appropriate and maturity appropriate level can help them learn to step outside of their comfort zone, and it’s easier said than done. You know, I think with my students, students it’s very easy. I teach a class on global dexterity, so I literally have a class about global dexterity where I teach them all the principles and concepts and as part of the class, they need to step outside their comfort zone.
I also teach a class outside the university unrelated to the university, which is with just professionals from around the world who want to learn the principles of global dexterities that they can then apply them to their own consulting and coaching work. And that’s super fun because that’s sort of like you’re teaching people who then will ultimately be helping and teaching others. So it’s sort of spread spreading the word and that’s, I love doing that. That’s my Global Dexterity Certification Program, and that’s been fun.
And then when I do work in companies, that varies. Sometimes that is a short term training course. Sometimes that is a keynote speech. I mean, what I love when I have the opportunity to work with an organization is to do something that’s a little bit deeper where people have the… like a small cohort of people who want to try to work and apply the principles that we’re talking about to situations outside their comfort zones, to ultimately enhance their ability to do their job and ultimately help the organization improve. That’s the most exciting. But any of these, I think it’s different in every circumstance.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, it’s neat what you said though, the application is vast. The range of being able to use this toolkit that you’ve built for yourself, that the ways that you can impact people at work, at home, friends. There’s a quote, I really like it’s called, “You can’t give away what you don’t have.” And being a leader in your space on these topics, obviously with clear overlap, people can look to you and you can design and create lifestyle and business and ways in which you show up in the world through your own experiences. And I just think it’s admirable. I think they’re some of the hardest skills to develop, especially for people in more exploratory states, but then a lot of the real world applications.
So I just appreciate your message and what you stand for and what you’ve done and I’ve just really enjoyed hearing your thoughts. Based on kind of everything we’ve discussed today, is there anything that, as we’ve talked about, you wish you could say, I really wish I could say this, or I wish I could build on that. Anything come up maybe for you in this conversation that you want to expand on?
Andy Molinsky:
The only thing is just sort of, as you were talking, I was thinking of your last question because there is and one other way that I try to impact people, which is through my writing actually. And so that’s, I hope that there are people out there who I don’t know who have been impacted in a positive way through either of my books. I have a LinkedIn newsletter that’s free that I write every week, a little newsletter and so on. That’s fun. I mean, sometimes you get some feedback, sometimes you don’t, but you hope that you can help people. I think as I get older in my career, that’s really what it’s about. It’s trying to use my skill, I guess, in trying to… I think I’m pretty good at taking complex ideas and making them simple. Not simplistic. Not losing the complexity, but making them simple and understandable. At least that’s what I try to do. And so if that is something that I’m pretty good at, I’d like to use that to help people.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, writing is such a powerful tool. And when you have an audience who will listen and an audience you can impact, there’s nothing more rewarding than people saying, I feel that too, that speaks to me. And knowing you touched one person and know that you’re good at it, you can keep pouring into it. So, Andy, thank you for your time today. This was really special, really informative and educational. Where can people find you, your books, your website, all the things.
Andy Molinsky:
Yeah, sure. So I guess the best ways would be my website, which is it’s www.andymolinsky.com. People often spell my name wrong, but it’s Andy and M-O-L-I-N-S-K-Y dot com. Also, you can find me on LinkedIn. I’m pretty active on LinkedIn. I have a Twitter as well and Facebook and so on, but it’s really, LinkedIn is really where I do most of my stuff. So I would say those are probably the two best places.
Bryan Wish:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Andy. I really appreciate your time and your help and look forward to continuing the conversation.
Andy Molinsky:
Yeah. It was really fun to talk. I really appreciated your questions and it was a fun opportunity to kind of reflect on some stuff. So thanks a lot.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah, absolutely. A lot of fun.