Caleb Guilliams is the founder and CEO of BetterWealth, a company committed to showing people how to have efficiency and control over their money today while maximizing their future wealth potential.
At an early age, Caleb read every financial book he could get his hands on and was fascinated with the idea of ordinary people being able to achieve extraordinary wealth.
While still in college, he was promoted to take over the entire investment division at a local community bank where he committed to finding a better way to wealth for his clients. He traveled across the country for over two years learning from top financial experts. He eventually discovered proven strategies and principles that can empower anyone to create and protect real wealth.
Caleb is one of the youngest leaders in the industry and is quickly becoming The New Face of Finance. Excited to share and impact as many lives as possible, Caleb authored The AND Asset, hosts the BetterWealth Podcast, and speaks around the world. He has a passion for financial education and is on a mission to help people see and reach their highest potential.
In this episode, Caleb and Bryan discuss:
- The importance of intentionality in all aspects of life
- How the digital age has made it easier for anyone to make money online
- Why we need to stop justifying decisions based on others’ opinions
The show is shared on the following platforms:
Transcript:
Bryan Wish:
Caleb, welcome to the One Away show.
Caleb Guilliams:
Man, it’s a pleasure to be here, man. Thanks for having me on.
Bryan Wish:
It’s a pleasure to have you. I am excited to do this. I’ve really loved meeting you or getting to talk to you since Denver and I’m just stoked. Start us off. What is your one away moment that you want to share today?
Caleb Guilliams:
My one away moment was, I’m 17 years old. I am afraid that I’m not even going to get through school because I can barely read. I’m really insecure. My mom’s friend connects me with this guy whose name is Dick Judy. And that we had breakfast. And he opened my eyes, took out his phone, got me a job at a bank, which later changed my life because it was the platform that helped me learn and build a business, and ultimately encouraged me to take school seriously. And so that one conversation changed my life. I was so nervous that I actually left my car on. It was like Wisconsin, 30 below zero. I remember how nervous I was. And as I look back, that was the one moment that changed my life from a standpoint of what happened next.
Bryan Wish:
Wow. Okay. Why were you meeting this guy? Why did your mom say we need to get you guys together?
Caleb Guilliams:
Just to give you a little backstory. I grew up in Wisconsin. I’m the oldest of six kids. I was homeschooled. My dad is a medical PhD doctor. My mom stayed home and homeschooled us. I just had a kind unique upbringing and I was smart from a standpoint, I wasn’t dumb, but I couldn’t read. Reading was incredibly difficult for me. And as you know reading is super important as it relates to school. And so I was always super, super insecure around schooling. Since I was homeschooled I didn’t really know where I was at. And so I was at the age where I was like, what am I going to do with my life? One of the things that my mom encouraged me to do is start learning from other people. And so this guy, his name was Dick Judy, he was on the board of a bank. He was retired, but he ran the business department at our local university.
And so I was just supposed to go there and pick his brain. And so I remember, this is so funny. My mom helped me write questions. I literally had, I came in with questions to ask him, I was so nervous. I learned a couple things. Number one, your net worth is in your network. Number two, how one person that’s just goes out of their way to be generous, can change your life. Because he was connected. He picked up his phone and changed my life. And number three, he just encouraged me to face certain fears and that was the catalyst. But that the backstory was, I was just trying to figure out what I was supposed to do with my life. And that’s where I went to that one conversation.
Bryan Wish:
That’s awesome. Very cool, man. The questions that your mom helped you prep, I have some vivid memories of prepping. I know how nerve-wracking that can be. Caleb, you mentioned a few things, right? You mentioned the dyslexia, you mentioned your parents backgrounds, being homeschooled. Did you have high professional aspirations as a kid? Did you have high ambitions and motivations? What were you like in high school and before that?
Caleb Guilliams:
That’s a great question. I’ve actually never been asked that. I was the typical oldest. I was very competitive. I was short and small, but I was very competitive. I loved to win and I was also into money. I knew that I wanted to get into the money space, because before that day that I met with Dick Judy, I worked at a chicken farm and hopefully this is not too gross for your audience, but I would process chickens. Let’s just say I have a high appreciation for the chicken sandwich. I would make a dollar per chicken that I processed. And so I started making money and that transpired into me just falling in love with how money works. And so at 15 years old, if you would asked me, Caleb, what do you want to be? I would’ve said, I want to be like Dave Ramsey.
I just was like, I want to be someone that helps people with money because I can’t believe everyone’s broke kind of deal. That would be what I would tell you. I was also very competitive. I went into college and graduated college without any debt and more money than I started with. So that gives you an understanding of how serious I took money, even at a young age. And so I would’ve said something about the money space and at the age of 15 I actually wrote this down after getting introduced to this concept of good degree that I wanted to be a Fortune 500 CEO to a company. I wanted to be a leader, I just didn’t know how I was going to do that because I thought I was never going to pass school.
Bryan Wish:
And so you developed I think a lot of work ethic and interest at a young age with money, the competitive nature. How much of this fear around not being able to graduate, learn the normal way, drove you and maybe had you overcompensate in other areas?
Caleb Guilliams:
I was terrified. My greatest fear was poverty, was failing, was other people thinking I was dumb. We don’t think of, what is that game? Apples to apples?
Bryan Wish:
Yeah.
Caleb Guilliams:
That was the worst game growing up. That was horrible game. Because you had to read out loud. Those definitely, I was afraid and I wanted to get school because my natural tendencies to go to scarcity and say, hey, worst case scenario, if I can graduate college, I’ll have this piece of paper that will allow me to work for somebody. Now looking back on it, I have changed my mindset so much. I have just so much more confidence and I ultimately am totally okay with failing. There’s something about being 15, 16, 17 years old, where I just thought failing would’ve been the worst thing. And so I’m grateful for that fear, but I also I’m so grateful that through this journey of actually graduating college, but starting businesses, failing many times has got me to understand that life is incredibly short and I actually want to fail fast.
Because I it’s so freeing to know my identity’s not in a bad idea. Whereas five, six years ago, my identity was in school. My identity was, if I failed I was a failure, if I succeeded, I was successful. I’m throwing a lot at you, but that’s-
Bryan Wish:
No, it’s great.
Caleb Guilliams:
… of how my mindset changed.
Bryan Wish:
No, this is great. And I’ll get back to Dick Judy in a second and that transformative moment. But it makes sense. You had to prepare, there was a lot of fear, fear of failing. And just back to the dyslexia, what did you do as a kid to maybe overcome? It seems like a lot of your fears were around, okay, if I have to read something and show up, I’m not going to be able to do it. What mechanisms maybe did you create for yourself early that allowed you to maybe see the world a bit differently?
Caleb Guilliams:
One of my favorite quotes is by Simon Sinek, and he says, “The solutions that you find are your weaknesses growing up, become your greatest strength.” The solutions that you find your weaknesses become your greatest strength. I became really, really good at listening and retaining through listening. I started listening to podcasts at 17 years old. It was before podcasts were actually cool. And before audible, I started listening to CDs. And so every time I would commute into town or to work, instead of listening to music, I would listen to books. And that also made me very resourceful, because even in school, I wasn’t going to just try to learn via the textbook. I would find people in the front row, because there’s a stereotype there are usually people in the front row that are taking notes, know what’s going down. I would work with them.
It was funny because everyone hates speaking. Right? I loved to speak. It’s like, hey, I will be the speaker in our group projects if you took me your notes and how they would share with me with their notes, because I would just ask some questions, interview style, and they would share it with me and then I would remember. And so all these themes of like, look at what I do now? Speak. I’ve learned how to delegate. I have a podcast. I learned a ton about money, not through books but through asking other people that helped me. And so all these things, Bryan, actually came out of my weaknesses and I’ve made them my superpowers, out of, number one, necessity. But then I’ve realized this is actually a huge gift of how I learned and transfer that knowledge.
Bryan Wish:
Beautiful. I just love the story. I love the Simon quote about you turning your weaknesses and the skills around them to your strengths and listening. It’s funny because after Rich, we had dinner that one night, I remember we were driving home and I was like, that is a polished speaker. He speaks in the very polished way. It was more around what I was saying. But you were talking about you delegated the reading to speak in these group situations, which makes sense. So you just got a lot more reps and much more comfortable with something people are uncomfortable with early. Okay. Well thanks for the context. I’m sure will give us more understanding as we move forward.
Let’s go back to present moment with Dick. You remember he pulled out his phone, he made a phone call and before you knew it, you had a job. Where did you end up going to work? What connection did he make? Just give us some insight.
Caleb Guilliams:
I was 17 years old. I was gutting chickens at the time. Okay? And one phone call to this president of the bank made it where I got a job when I was underage. Usually they didn’t hire till 18. I got a job without even applying. Okay? I had to fill in an application to make it official after I got hired. But it was just like, that was wild to me. It was wild that one person could just position you into a place. I worked as a teller. I worked Mondays and Fridays. So everything I learned Monday, I forgot for Friday. The HR changed their hiring procedure after that. But I was put in an environment that I was very uncomfortable in, but it helped me.
For instance, as a teller, I know your social security number. I know you how much money you make. I know that secret bank account that you don’t want your spouse to know about. I know all your bad habits. I have to take calls, get this, people on the phone, this is central Wisconsin. So you got a lot of Polish, big names. Like saying, hey, my accounts, blah, blah, blah, and this is their last name. And I’m like, oh crap. I’m learning how to spell. I’m learning how to have conversations. People that get angry. And so I’m learning customers. I’m learning how to have conversations. I’m learning how to handle money. But the biggest thing, and I want this to translate, at 17 years old, I’m learning to talk about money.
And today money’s super, we don’t talk about it. I have to sometimes catch myself at the door because I’ll ask people, how much do you make? What was your revenue last year? All this stuff. And that it’s that’s actually not okay to talk about for the normal person. I just grew up in that. That helped me, just that environment, I guess what I could say, that environment helped me just become the person I am today. Because for so many people money is this taboo thing and I just was involved in it from a very active level at a young age.
Bryan Wish:
Absolutely. And you developed a level of extreme comfort talking about it and being in conversations with people much older than you to develop that level of comfort. You said that in high school that you had developed this fascination with money, and so when you got the job at the bank, it was just more exposure to money on an everyday basis. Right? And now other people’s wealth. What were some of the, beyond just maybe what you learned on the job, customer service, now talk about it. What were maybe some of the bigger, tangible lessons that you were able to pull out of the job that allowed you to just develop insights into maybe what led to your next steps?
Caleb Guilliams:
I was just fascinated mainly by this concept of accumulation. Majority of people don’t have any money, they spend it and they spend more than they make. It just is fascinating to me. It’s like, why are we in this position? And I see bad behaviors because of a lack of money. And so what’s interesting is, to understand money, we actually have to understand people. We have to understand people’s heart and it’s more of a heart issue than anything else and how so many people it’s really a status game for them. And so that was the big, interesting aha moment, to be like, everybody’s lying. Everybody’s flexing. And everyone’s trying to either out of fear or out of wanting to impress people.
That was just one thing that was just a big epiphany and I saw firsthand, because you can’t lie to me because I see your numbers, I see what you drive, I see how much you spend and I see what you’re making. And so for me, I don’t really get caught. I don’t believe anybody nowadays, especially in the work that we do, if someone says they make X, Y, and Z, amazing, I don’t really care. But in most cases you don’t. I can’t tell you how many people lie and they don’t even do it purposefully, it’s just we’re ingrained in doing that. I don’t know, I went on a tangent there, but it’s just super interesting to me that it’s money and status are so aligned.
Bryan Wish:
Well it seems like it was this internal learning around, how does money compound and accumulate over time? Which is fascinating and seems like you are at the center of right now, but also like you said, I think, what is the external perception of people around money and wealth when they probably don’t have any that behind the scenes, but put on images as if they do? That’s really polarizing on both sides. It’s neat that such a young age, I feel that’s something you really learn in your maybe late 20s, but you’ve been able to lean into that. That’s really neat. It seems like you, from what you’ve shared at dinner and we aren’t going to go into all of it, but you had a lot of success there at the bank and you’re one of the younger people. Where has this all led to? What did that take you to do next?
Caleb Guilliams:
I read a book called, Think and Grow Rich, and I definitely don’t recommend the whole book as a whole, but I think some parts of the book are incredible and I highly recommend people just being aware of some of the context in the book. And so I read that and I was like, okay, money follows value. And at a young age I articulated that, okay, there’s nothing that I can do at the bank that’s going to help me be wealthy from an hourly wage. I started seeing the bank as a platform and as a way to help me increase my value, my specialized knowledge. And this is really, really key, if you’re under the age of 30 listening to this, take note, because I’m still using this to this day. I use what I call the student card. Okay?
When you’re young and you can articulate what you actually want to learn and you can articulate your why, you would be shocked how many people will help you. And so I just started, I desperately wanted to learn about loans. I desperately wanted to learn about marketing. From 15 years old, Bryan, I wanted to work in investments. What I did was, I just worked for other departments for free. I’m telling you, my mom and others are like, Caleb, don’t work for free. They’re just ingrained to like, you should demand a raise or whatever. I was an HR nightmare, because I was only allowed to work X amount of hours. And so I would work those hours and then the rest I would work for free and people are like, I was a nightmare. Right?
But I was like, this is the biggest no brainer of my life. I got to write radio ads and be on the radio. I got to work in our loan department and go to business site views with our commercial loan officer. I worked as our investment assistant and helped them file papers and sat in on meetings. And what that allowed me to do is when I was 18 years old, I got to work as our investment assistant, which Bryan, I thought my life was made, because I finally had business cards, Caleb Guilliams, investment assistant. And I was like, I arrived. Right? And then all of that positioned me to just being in the right place at the right time. Because when I was 19 years old, the guy that was running our investment department took another job. And I was the only person that actually knew what was going on at the time.
And so I took over at the age of 19, the corner office of the bank, and it ran our investment department. And so if you can imagine, you’re ready to retire, you come into the bank, you’re ready to meet with the investment advisor, you walk into the corner office, I shut the door and you start having this 10 minutes of horror when you realize that you have grandchildren older than the person that’s going to help you with your money. I was just put in that position. And the best thing I ever did was I took what I did on a local level. And I said, you know what, I am not just going to be the expert here. I’m going to see if I can get other people that can help me understand taxes and retirement and wealth and all this stuff.
And so what I essentially did was I reached out to people, leading with my why, hey, I’m 19 years old, this is the situation I’m in, giving credibility. But then I also was just like, I so desperately want to help people see and reach their highest potential and I know money is tied to that. And I want to work and learn from you because of your expertise in this X, Y, or Z. Bryan, the amount of people that were like, oh my goodness, I will literally teach you anything and help you with anything. I just became, all that knowledge was transferred over because I was able to humbly articulate where I was at, some credibility of why I want to do this, more importantly, the deep heart issue of why this matters.
And that formula, I still use it to this day. If you’re young, listening to this, you would be shocked how many people will go out of their way to help you, because there’s I believe in every single one of us, a deep, deep desire to want to give back. And when you’re young, you’re not a threat. And so even the scarcity mindset of, I don’t want this kid compete with me, no one was afraid of the 19 year old kid. And the cool thing is now I’m helping the same people that helped me with things like being a thought leader and all these things. Where it’s like, hey, there’s this thing called the internet and you might want to start using it. And so it’s fun how it all comes back around.
Bryan Wish:
Absolutely. On one end you were able to reach out to people. I think what you did was brilliant, playing the young card of, hey, I am here in my journey. I’d love to learn from you. I have a lot of respect though for what you said, you’re paying it forward now, you’re paying it back to the people who helped you get to where you are. I think just that giver’s mindset, that pays back tenfold. It’s neat that, what I’ll say, you were that proactive that young, you realize the bank is a platform, then you’d be like, okay, what are the gaps in the learning and areas that I need to build upon to really understand the whole picture, and then go out and find the people in those specific areas with that knowledge and then accrue the knowledge and then put it all into your working mind. And so that’s I think really cool. And now you’re helping those people in return. So what a story and what intentionality at a young age.
Caleb Guilliams:
Intentionality is everything. I think one of the things that we try to articulate now is if you can’t tell me what intentional living looks like for you, then nothing that I talk about money matters.
Bryan Wish:
Absolutely.
Caleb Guilliams:
It’s just like, because why does wealth in general matter if you can’t articulate what intentional living looks like? thanks for bringing that up.
Bryan Wish:
Of course. Well, I want to ask you about intentional living because you’ve brought it up multiple times and I really value that term. I want to give you the platform to talk about how BetterWealth was created, but I can see where this is going. Define intentional living for us.
Caleb Guilliams:
Intentional living is living life on your terms. It’s a function of three things. It’s a function of your time, which is your greatest resource period. It’s a function of your resources, which when we think of resources we mainly think of money, but it could be other things that are owned by you. And then the third thing is your potential. It’s the value that maybe is unrealized. If you’re living intentionally, you’re spending your time, you’re spending your resources and you’re spending your potential on the things that you want to do. I think a deeper, if we dig deeper to the idea of intentional living, we’re like, okay, what is actually going to make you fulfilled?
And what a lot of times people will say is, especially if they’ve never thought about it, they’ll say something like, hey, I want to travel or I want to do, they’ll say something out there and there’s nothing wrong with traveling, but it’s usually it’s like, okay, why? And it comes deeper to the, they like that represents freedom to them, and they don’t being tied down to having to do X, Y, or Z. And so it’s just really interesting to help people identify that, because a lot of times you realize you don’t have to make millions and millions of dollars to live that life. I think this whole concept of retirement and wait till 65 or now 70, I think it’s crazy.
I think it’s absolutely crazy that we live in a world with technology and we live in a world where there’s so much wealth out there. And again, I’m not just talking money, I’m talking about opportunity. And we have people that are putting their head down for some day carrot that a little secret it’s never going to happen. Because if you just look at stats, we’re never going to be able to retire the typical way. And so it’s funny because I’m in the wealth space, but I feel like more of a coach.
Bryan Wish:
Great.
Caleb Guilliams:
It’s like, if people never ask you this man, you could literally waste 30 years of your life.
Bryan Wish:
Totally. And you know what word is really coming to mind as I’m talking to you? It’s just immense ownership. You’ve taken immense ownership over your life. And to have ownership over your time, to live intentionally, you really need to have a grip up on your finances, because that creates the freedom. It’s a vehicle. It relates exactly to what you said with intentional living and living life on your own terms. I think having ownership of the way you live your life. And so couldn’t be happier for you, and also just excited by just the freshness and the perspective that you have. And it’s not dry and mundane. I appreciate you articulating that.
Caleb, I would love to know, it seems like this, going back to Dick, getting you the job at the bank, the bank opening up your mind and you working extra hours in different departments and finding people with knowledge, and you followed this path, so to speak, that has accumulated in your terms and led to a greater creation with BetterWealth. Talk to me about when the idea for BetterWealth went off for you, why you started it and what the company looks like today.
Caleb Guilliams:
Stephen Covey, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, talks about thinking with the end in mind. And so I remember reading that and feeling very inspired and thinking to myself, hey, I need to make myself a mission statement. Why am I getting out of bed? Again, I was a very interesting 18 year old kid. I made a mission statement for myself, which read, to help people see and reach their highest potential. That was my mission statement. When I had the opportunity to take over the bank’s investment department, I would put it up on the wall and everyone that came in, I would explain to them, I would do a version of Simon Sinek. What’s your why? I would point up to my mission statement and say, my purpose here is to help people see and reach their highest potential. My goal for this meeting is to get really, really clear on what that is for you. And then I will work on your behalf to make that a reality.
That was before I knew any of this, it just intuitively made sense to me. Majority of people have never been asked and this needs to happen. I remember one day we had a client come in and he was really excited because he wanted to retire. He is in his 60s, he worked a job that he never loved and he wanted to retire. I started looking into his stuff and I realized real fast that there’s no way in the world he’s retiring. And then it just hit me. Having that meeting with him was brutal. I remember reflecting and looking at my mission statement and I just was like, I am lying to myself. Remember one of my fears was never graduating college, I graduated college in three years. I’m wrapping up my college experience. I have a corner office. I have now business cards that read Caleb Guilliams, financial life specialist.
I have a corner office at the bank. I have bank phone, everything’s set. Right? I look up at my mission statement, I’m just like, I don’t want to play it safe. You know that feeling that you go, I could play it safe and I just would not be happy with myself. And I remember, again, going back to Think and Grow Rich, there’s an exercise that has you identify your biggest fear. My dad made good money. I grew up in an amazing household, but I had this fear of being broke. I had this fear of failure. I had this fear of people criticizing me. I knew if I stayed at the bank, nobody would criticize me. To this day it would be a super cushy gig. But I knew that there was something more that I needed to do so that I personally wouldn’t just be the person that sat back and said, I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I’m sorry.
I just knew that there was more. And so at the age of 21, we set out on this mission to, hey, there’s got to be a better way to educate, there’s got to be a better way to coach and there’s got to be a better way to help people before they hit that 65 mark and have never been asked why they’re doing what they’re doing. And so that was why or how BetterWealth was started. There’s two people that helped me, that believed in the vision that were on the ground floor of helping this thing take off. We just had this mission of, hey, there will be a line outside the door when people understand that there’s a better way to think about money. We’re not very creative, so we’re like, BetterWealth.
And actually it was BetterWealth solutions was the domain because I couldn’t afford betterwealth.com at the time. And so that was the start of BetterWealth. And there’s a couple things I want to add to that. Our first office was under a Pappajohn’s building. Okay? Talk about not so sexy place to start a wealth firm, right? Literally there’s no elevator, you had to walk down this sketchy stairs to a basement under a pizza shop, betterwealth.com. But we were like, hey, the Internet’s going to be our thing. And so we started doing things on the internet. I started a podcast, I started writing a book that was self-published and we just had this belief and we just were really consistent with it.
And we didn’t make any money the first year, but the platform, that belief that encouragement built, and it’s crazy to see how content, how a solid foundation, how continuing to be consistent, took us from nobody to building a company that now has over 15 people employed. We have clients in all 50 states. I have the honor of speaking on some pretty big stages and having some pretty well known clients that are now a part of our company. It’s just I get emotional thinking back because I was living at home, Bryan, when we started BetterWealth. Talk about a mind, I’m trying to find an appropriate word for it. It really messes with your brain. You’re helping people with money, but you’re living with your parents.
The last thing I want to say is, one of the co-founders of BetterWealth died of cancer. One of the things that has helped me really, really articulate intentional living is seeing one of my best friends die of cancer, leaving three kids under the age of 18. He just continually spoken to my life and said, Caleb, none of this matters. Caleb, be intentional with every moment. Really that message was really clear. And so you notice that intentional living is a key theme because one of his last words to us was, don’t forget the reason why we started. The reason why we started was to help families live more intentionally. And that for me is I constantly go back to that.
If I ever lose that, I need people like you to call me out, because that’s why we’re in business. And so that just gives you the transition and the life that we had to live through. And all of that has really built us up to better articulate, but be better equipped to serving the people that really want to live life on their terms.
Bryan Wish:
Chills man, chills. Unbelievable. You were already I think pretty intentional with how you went about things. But when your co-founder, just see you watch someone wither away and die, I have to imagine that has never lost you. To be spiritual for a second, do you feel like he’s with you? Have had any weird things happen where you just feel like he’s there every day?
Caleb Guilliams:
Yes. I think one of the things that’s interesting is, I can never replace his kids, I can’t be their father figure like he was, but I have taken an active role in really mentoring his kids. I feel a little guilty sometimes because in a way I knew their dad. Just because the age we would spend really intentional time even before the business was started. And so all the time, man, I think of, if Greg was here. And so I think of him a lot. One of the things that we do to continue to honor him is have an intentional living award and really help our community honor him by saying, okay, I want to highlight people that are living intentionally.
The other thing that I’ve done, that I want to encourage every single person to do with the people that you love the most, and this might sound morbid, but we did an interview. We did an interview with him before he passed away, knowing that he was going to die. I’m telling you, man, that’s one of the most valuable recorded conversations that I’ve ever done. That will live on for his kids, future kids. And so all I’ll say is, yes, there’s a lot of things that we do to this day that are inspired by Greg. Do I feel like he’s with me right here? No. But it’s crazy how much I think of him. I don’t know if he’s proud or maybe he’s just laughing right now, but the goal is his life is going to continue to make ripples to this day.
Bryan Wish:
So beautiful man. Well, it reminds me of the book, When Breath Becomes Air. Have you read that?
Caleb Guilliams:
I have not.
Bryan Wish:
I’ll send you the link after, it’s unreal. It’s a guy who’s writing a book as he is dying and it’s raw. He is a doctor anyways. It’s unbelievable. Another question I had for you was, on this journey, you said something that really stuck out. You said at the bank, you knew internally there was something much more for you out there. You could have sat cushy and been fine, but you knew there was just something bigger. What did that feel like and how did that end up pushing you to create BetterWealth?
Caleb Guilliams:
That’s another really great question, man. I really appreciate the intentional questions. This is super interesting because this is really the reason why we are successful, because I was playing an infinite game and I didn’t read any of Simon Sinek’s stuff. I didn’t read his book, but I was not motivated by the dollar, which sounds really weird because I was in the money space. I think I’ve always been terrified of dying and regretting on my deathbed, the things that I didn’t do. I remember reading something, it might have been a TED talk, where it was like, when you interview older people, zero of them will say I regretted taking a risk.
Majority of people will say, what the hell did I spend my life doing? Why didn’t I go for it? And so at 19 years old, again, I’m just so grateful that I got to experience some of these thoughts. Because I’m like, Bryan, if I fail and I’m 30 years old, we live in America. We live, in my opinion the greatest country ever. We have so many safety nets. It not like you’re going to go to jail if you fail. Right? And yet so many people are playing it safe. I just realized the one thing that was getting in my way was fear of what people that I loved would think about me. I had to face that fear, because that fear by the way is holding so many people back. Your spouse, your parents, your friends, the public, clients.
I just was like, I am totally okay if I fall flat on my face, my family, my friends. I’m totally okay with that. And once I got clear on that, it was so freeing and I want that for every single person. Maybe building a business is not for you. I actually don’t think it’s for everybody. I think it’s for a very, very small percentage of people. What I do feel like is, I feel like everyone’s hedging, everyone’s playing it safe. Pretend you have one week to live, you don’t become afraid anymore, because you will lose everything. I think Greg just solidified that of someone. He would’ve loved what we’re doing now and it’s all gone.
Bryan Wish:
Might have been a good question, it was a better answer. I really respect what you said, man. I think we’re just very aligned as individuals. The point about, it’s ironic about you caring about money, but it was never about the money. You really thinking just people playing it safe, very similar to you. I was like, why don’t I just go for it and do something I’m aligned with? And similar to you, it was like, how do you play the long term game from the beginning? You had been thinking about questions that people don’t ask themselves until they’re 40 or 50, traditionally. Right? You’re not a traditional person. I got to give it to you because you followed that, just from the outside looking in, you followed that intuition I think at every step and it hasn’t been easy of course, but the hard life and the lime life, I think are one of the same and it’s going to be hard either way.
You can either run from what’s hard or lean into it. I think you’re a walking example. And then the last thing I’ll say, is you talked about just being confident in who you are. And that was another thing I noticed when we had dinner that night in Denver, I said to Rich, I said, someone who seems very confident in who they are and it’s something I admire because it’s something I have not struggled with maybe, but definitely have been on the lesser side of it and learning to try and develop it more outwardly. It was just very apparent how self-assured you were, and it’s just noticeable. It’s admirable, right? That you picked up on these things young and you’re living your highest purpose and value. It’s very respectable to just see someone on the younger side building a business and doing it in just such aligned way.
Caleb Guilliams:
Can we riff on this for a second?
Bryan Wish:
Riff.
Caleb Guilliams:
Okay. I’m going to share some things that I have not articulated, because I usually talk about money stuff on podcast, which are really boring. So I appreciate conversations like this.
Bryan Wish:
Great.
Caleb Guilliams:
There’s this guy who has had a big impact on my life. His name’s Dave Anderson, and he has this concept called non-convincing language. The whole theory of non-convincing language is, so many people try to convince either themselves or you in the way that they talk. So statements don’t require response. How many people swing at pitches in the dirt, or you told me that X, Y or Z is horrible, so I’m going to respond to you. And so many people are justifying everything, because they feel like they have to. And the big epiphany that I had was, try to go through life not justifying anything and not trying to convince anybody of anything. The only way that you can do that is if you are fulfilled without other third party factors.
I’m still struggling to this day because we all crave validation from other people. We all do it. And that’s ultimately, if you didn’t, you would not be necessarily the person that people would want to hang out with. It’s you always take this with a grain of salt.
Bryan Wish:
Love it.
Caleb Guilliams:
But start looking and seeing, you’re going to start noticing how many people justify everything. That’s number one. We feel like we have to justify everything. And if you can get to a place where you don’t have to justify, or you don’t have to convince people of why you do certain things, and you are secure in who you are, and your identity is in something so much deeper than what the public or what your mom thinks of you or your spouse thinks of you or your girlfriend or boyfriend, whatever, that’s true freedom and true wealth. And I’m just starting to lean into this. I give myself a C minus by the way. There’s a lot of work that I need to be doing.
But as I started going through this, I started thinking, man, I justify everything, everything that I do. And it’s one of the most freeing things that I’m still trying to develop more. I appreciate you sharing that, but I also want to encourage people to be like, it’s a work in progress and there’s something super freeing about this concept of non-convincing.
Bryan Wish:
I like it. That’s so interesting to me. I think early on in BOC and taking this path, there was a lot justifying, because it’s so out of the norm. You go to justify to your parents, you got to justify to your friends and then you just hit a point in time where you just like, screw it, this is just who I am. It’s like, whatever. It’s funny, to speak to that notion, I found myself justifying in an area I never thought I would, which is coming to Portland, because it’s all over the news. It’s just a shit show and blah, blah, blah. I have to tell people I’m in Portland, they think I’m rioting, who are clients. And I’m like, I’m here but trust me I’m not rioting. Anyways, usually I don’t really feel that in a lot of cases, but I so know what you mean.
I think it’s such an important principle. I think it’s at deeper root of it. It’s really hard to stand fully into who you are, to belong on your own terms and face the arena of whatever life is going to throw at you. And so, again, I think it’s something we’ll always work at. It’s never going to be easy. It’s a beautiful principle. Caleb, tell us, one, what’s your vision for BetterWealth? And when it’s all set and done, where do you see this going? And then where are you today with the business?
Caleb Guilliams:
BetterWealth, we make money in four areas right now. We make money doing coaching. People come to workshops and use our cash flow coaches, and so we make money there. We have an insurance shop. And so the first book I wrote was all about life insurance and some amazing strategies you can do with that. And so we have that. We have an investment firm, so we do investments, 401(k), IRAs, and then we’re building out a tax company. That’s probably the thing I’m most looking forward to because I’m just a nerd when it comes to helping people be efficient in how they structure their entities and how they pay taxes. Those are the four things that we’re doing now. The big vision of BetterWealth is to be the one stop shop for every financial decision.
So some of the things that we’re working on behind the scenes are, we have a software that we’re working on because I believe money can be simplified into two lines, which is shocking, because everyone overcomplicates everything in money because they want to do that, so that you have to work with them so that they make more money. I just feel like money can be boiled down into cash flow, money only does two things get your cash for ratio balanced and you’re good. And so that’s one of the things that we’re developing out. And then we’re also developing, empowering other people in the industry. And so I actively actually coach people, especially financial advisors in this space.
And we’re trying to figure out better ways to help people build a business that can serve as many people, because we know that we can’t touch everybody, and so I want to inspire a million people to start living intentionally and the way to do that is do that directly, but then do that indirectly through other people and making them more effective. And so think of BetterWealth as building the financial death star of I want everything to connect to it. And right now we’re starting with trying to be niche and working primarily with entrepreneurs. The people that we can best serve are entrepreneurs right now, because I feel like that’s the most leveraged person to serve right now, that gives us the ability to help the masses, and then that will eventually pour over and we want to help everybody.
Bryan Wish:
That’s awesome. Big vision, man. Lots of execution day-to-day.
Caleb Guilliams:
That’s the problem, execution. That’s where the rubber meets the road.
Bryan Wish:
It’s okay. You have all the time in the world in front of you and started young. I’m sure. We’re all figuring it out, but I’m proud, man. I’m proud of you. It’s been really special getting to know. You just have a way about you, I’m sure you’ve heard that. I heard an expression like Jodavid or Jodavid, I don’t even know what it means, which means having a way about you. And I was like, I like that, so anyways. I enjoy your conversations. I really just what you stand for and represent. Right? In my world, BetterWealth is an extension of who you are and your values, and it’s easier to buy into because it’s you. And so it’s very clear from this conversation. Caleb, thanks for your just rawness, authenticity today. This was a treat. Where can people find you?
Caleb Guilliams:
Betterwealth.com, that’s our website. And on all the social media platforms it’s my first and last name, Caleb Guilliams. If you’re listening to this, it’s G-U-I-L-L-I-A-M-S. Another funny story is my parents got their name butchered at their wedding. I’ve the ultimate empathy for anyone that messes up my name. I wish I had an easy name like Wish, right?
Bryan Wish:
Well, I have a story to that too, but I’ll tell you offline.
Caleb Guilliams:
Anyways, that’s how you can find me. And if there’s anything that I can do for you, Bryan, or your audience, I’ll do it in a heartbeat, because I love what you stand for. I love what your company’s all about. We could totally have another conversation about just our one word and how being a thought leader took our business from nothing to being a pretty big business for the size for my age and all that stuff. And so it I’m the ultimate case study on how someone that doesn’t really have a lot of credibility built a business off of taking what you do for people day in and day out. And I’m telling you, we would not be here, we would not be talking if I didn’t stumble through this concept of being a thought leader. And so dude keep it up, because I’m excited to see the impact, the ripple effect you’re going to have by empowering other people to be more effective. I’m a big fan of you.
Bryan Wish:
Well, thank you Caleb. I really appreciate it. Thank you and excited to share this with our audience.