Joe Musselman is a passionate founder, entrepreneur, and investor whose experience spans nearly twenty years of building, advising, and coaching extraordinary, teams, leaders, and cultures. He makes obvious his deep love for people immediately and enjoys creating the space for others to become their best selves while inspiring them to do the same for others.
Early in his career, Joe was the CEO and Founder of Honor.org, America’s first career transition institute for Navy SEALs and the U.S. Special Operations community. Alongside a remarkable Team, they scaled a multi-million dollar business and a network of 7,000 + supporters and deep networks inside the Fortune 100, technology, private equity, and venture capital communities. Joe is now the Founder, Chairman of an endowment effort called Honorforlife.com that will support Honor.org in perpetuity. He has acted as a board member and advisor to national non-profits, endowment funds, and early-stage technology companies ranging from the early-formation stages to multi-billion dollar market cap companies across several industries and sectors.
Joe graduated from DePaul University in 2006 and later received Certificates in Design Thinking (Stanford), Non-Profit (Harvard), and Capital Markets (Pepperdine). He enjoys speaking to young energized minds and has lectured at NYU, UCSD, UCLA, and UCSB on the Art and Science of Teams, Leadership, and Culture. Joe is the sixteenth man in his family to serve in the United States Military. He is a proud US Navy Veteran; he was honorably retired from the US Naval Special Warfare Command.
In this episode, Joe and Bryan discuss:
- Surrounding yourself with people who empower you to be your best
- Why self-pity does little to help yourself or others
- Buildng bridges for yourself and others professionally
The show is shared on the following platforms:
Transcript:
Bryan Wish:
Joe, welcome to The One Away Show.
Joe Musselman:
Hey, Bryan. It’s great to be here, man. Thank you.
Bryan Wish:
It’s great to have you here. It’s been awesome getting to know you. So thrilled to dive in to this today. Joe, what is the one away moment that you want to share with us today?
Joe Musselman:
Yeah, that’s a great question. The answer first, context second, would probably go like this. I was training to become a Navy SEAL, and then I sustained a military career ending injury and was dropped from training all within the same week. That’s the answer. Then the broader context is, I was the 16th man in my family to serve in the United States military. I spent two years training to get to a two year training pipeline, of which I was two years in, and then sustained an injury and then I was out. You can imagine, you want to talk about one away moments. I remember everything about that moment, the smell in the air, where I was, who was around me, the way the sand felt underneath my boots, the exact position on the beach that I was at. It was by far a one away moment. No idea what it would launch me into, but by far it was a trajectory changing moment, without question.
Bryan Wish:
Wow. Well we’re off to a bang, clearly. You said you were there, you said 16 members in your family?
Joe Musselman:
Yeah, now I think it’s actually, I think it’s 18 now. My two cousins joined the Navy, and one is an officer, and then another one joined the Marine Corps, who was just commissioned as an officer. I have two younger cousins that are now in the military as well.
Bryan Wish:
Wow. What I’m hearing you say is, being a part of the military, that was so formative to your upbringing as a kid and just what you saw. Is that…
Joe Musselman:
Oh, no question. For the folks that are listening, I’m sure you’ve walked into folks that you know in their homes and you’ve seen photos of grandparents and great uncles and uncles in uniform and boot camp photos and all of these different types of memorabilia showcasing the comradery of service. It’s something that despite some people only serving a few years, two, three, four years in the military, and went to battle or did not go to battle, they still consider that service to be one of the most formative times in their lives. I most certainly can say that about me, despite being in for just under three years. It was by far one of the most formative things in my life. I did, I grew up seeing uniforms in every closet of every home. It was never a matter of if, it was a matter of when. I chose to go in a few years after college, taking some time to train properly to go and try to accomplish this.
Bryan Wish:
Wow. That’s, one, just incredible testament to your family who have served, so thank you. I have two grandparents, but not 16 or 18, but thank you for sharing. Joe, you grow up in an environment, when you look back on your family, grandparents, parents, uncles, aunts, you said it wasn’t a matter of if, it was a matter of when. Were there any stories that you remember from growing up that were shared with you that, it was always the thanksgiving or holiday story around something that happened? I’m going to bring this around, but I’m just curious.
Joe Musselman:
Yeah, sure. That’s a great question. The ones that stick out in mind though, is that they’re all under this umbrella of service as a sacred duty. This was something that I realized only post injury and moving into the next great adventure of my own life. Service is in fact a sacred duty. It’s funny, you grew up in a family filled with service members, they also marry people who are service oriented. Like attracts like. I grew up in a family of nurses and teachers and social workers and doctors, attorneys. These are folks that hope to serve and protect at every cost.
Growing up, I remember the moments described to me while within service, or while serving, that had to do with more moments, and we all know this, that we’re just emotionally shaping moments in their life. They could be a glimpse of something. My uncle Tommy would talk about being stacked up in the racks of a navy ship. There’s nothing really comparable to it, being in a very, very small compartment with racks four up on one side, four up on the other, eight people living in a very, very small room in close quarters, to my grandfather talking about the opportunity to drive around officers and listen to different stories and listening to briefings, and to my dad going in training in Germany and before Vietnam. The comradery, the community, and the individual stories always fell underneath the umbrella of service.
That is guilty by association. You learn through osmosis in these stories to think, feel, and communicate in a very service oriented way. The most impressionable years of my life was spent with, of course my mother and father who loved me dearly and I love them dearly, but my grandfather and my nonny and poppy who met right after World War II in a very classical romance. He came back from war, and the next door neighbor, the [inaudible 00:06:54] sisters, as they were known. Had a neighbor explain to my grandfather that Carmella grew up in a hurry and you should go see her.
All of these different stories that warm me up thinking about them, I would say fall underneath the service is a sacred duty, and I hope to at least emulate the same that I had growing up.
Bryan Wish:
Well, thank you for the family context and understanding maybe what inspired you and what led you to say this is a path for me to go down. I’m sure extremely touching, moving, growing up so you could go experience it yourself. I want to go to the moment that you just shared at the beginning where you said you were training, you were two years in, and all of a sudden you realized this isn’t possible. Everything is about to change. What was running through your mind? First off, what was the injury, if you knew, but what did you do? Then because you can remember being there, what was going on inside?
Joe Musselman:
Oh yeah. Well, it was a spine injury, and I can remember vividly that number one, the amount of empathy that was shown to me from the SEAL community in the moment of injury and then throughout was remarkable. Despite the harsh circumstances of going through training, it didn’t really matter in that moment. Someone treated me with great care. They scooped me up like a little child and carried me to the ambulance, brought me to the hospital, stayed with me through my MRIs and my x-rays. I never felt uncared for in that moment of injury.
But what was going through my mind was embarrassment, shame, guilt. Although those are all things that don’t seem to make much sense to maybe folks that are listening, but when you go towards something, hard charged towards something, anything in life, and then it doesn’t happen, I guess if I frame it that way for folks maybe you’ll understand why I felt that way. But I felt like I was letting posterity down. I felt like I was letting myself down. It took me so long to get to that point. I thought I had wasted years of my life, which Bryan, we’ve had conversations about this in the past. Wasting time and attention is the most egregious thing you could do to anyone, let alone yourself.
I know in that moment I felt really down, definitely went into a very depressive state for the next, almost year, eight months, eight to 10 months of my life. But it was a hard time, and it’s very hard to think clearly too when you are in that moment to understand how you actually feel about it, versus the emotions that are being thrown at you because of your circumstances. That’s how I could say I was feeling in that moment. It was certainly a lot all at once.
Bryan Wish:
Totally. Well, when you have such a clear vision for your life and beat down that like no other, knowing you, I’m sure it was a hard charge once you made up your mind
Joe Musselman:
It was.
Bryan Wish:
To have that taken away from you. You said embarrassment, shame, guilt, were three of the emotions. Was that embarrassment and shame because… how much of those emotions were because of other people and their perception of you?
Joe Musselman:
That’s a great question. The embarrassment was, I’d say almost nearly 100%, 99% self imposed, and then the shame did not come from others either. Even the instructors at SEAL training had known what happened and no one was shaming me, and the guilt was nearly all myself too. I think most people, when you think about it, we self-impose a lot of the things that we seem to feel so strongly about.
But those three emotions were definitely a cocktail that I was pouring myself and also taking. But it took a while to really understand what I was feeling, why I was feeling that way. What turned the corner for me was something very, very unexpected and stark, and jolting, and state changing. It happened in less than two minutes. I don’t know if that maybe answered your question, but it was mostly all self-imposed. But at the time you don’t think of it like that. When anyone is going through anything where they were hard charging toward a goal, and all of a sudden you are faced with a what’s next question, what’s next, and you weren’t prepared for it or it wasn’t part of your “plan,” we tend to feel that way and it’s mainly because we’re making ourselves feel that way. That’s something I hope not to allow ever happen again. I’ve had several instances where I’ve failed, not as fail forward in that moment, but fail forward in future moments where I certainly haven’t felt, or self-imposed that level of guilt, shame, or embarrassment on myself.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. Man, this needs to be brought into maybe that experience, because I’ve only known you since that and what you’ve gone on to do after, but to become such a collective moment that is so formative is just, I appreciate the vulnerability and just willingness to obviously share in this setting.
Joe Musselman:
Oh, for sure.
Bryan Wish:
When I’m talking to a lot of people and and something doesn’t go their way, it’s like, yeah, because I told everyone I was going to go do this and now it can’t happen. But I like what you’re saying, too. It was self-imposed. It’s like you had such high expectations for you and the life you were going to go lead, and now that was stripped from you. You talked about failing forward, and you said you’re faced with these questions of what’s next.
Once that year of depressive states and reconciling with what happened, when you look at that year and some of your darkest moments, what were some maybe, the glimmers of hope that you maybe experienced in that tunnel that said, you know what? There might be a way out of this, there might be something to push forward. I’m just curious as you look back on that year after the incident.
Joe Musselman:
I am openly unashamed to label myself an eternal optimist and altruist. In that moment, for sure, I was being tested. My optimism was being tested. I didn’t understand the silver lining with all of this. I think faith had a big part in that. I’m a Christian and I think that moving away from those principles and those moments, because if you can’t blame yourself and you’re a Christian, you start to blame God, which is just silly. You want to make God laugh, you tell him about your plans. One thing I was saying in that moment was, “You better have a plan. This better be part of your plan,” which is really funny to think about saying that to God, and in your mind you’re screaming it to God.
But I don’t know, I guess in that fail forward moment, there were two things that I could remember distinctly that shook my mindset back into a different course where I “happened” to stumble. Actually there’s three things. I happened to stumble across an old letter of recommendation that was written on my behalf to go into the Navy by the chair of the political science department of my undergrad university, at DePaul. I’m reading this letter of recommendation and I kept thinking to myself, who is he talking about? It doesn’t sound like me, because I don’t feel this way. I don’t feel like this person that he’s writing about.
Bryan Wish:
What did it say?
Joe Musselman:
Things like incomparable spirit, force of nature in the direction of good. I remember those phrases in particularly, because again, he knew me in a different way than most professors knew me. We would meet for [inaudible 00:16:54] after thesis class and just openly and candidly talk about the state of the world. He knew me in a little different way than the majority of my political science professors did, but we talked about truth. We got into [inaudible 00:17:07] ethics and trying to really understand what morality actually is, and what it looks like and feels like in society, fabric of society. His recommendation was compelling, and he had words to describe me that I would never use. Most people will describe us better than we can describe ourselves. Most people aren’t that great at describing themselves in that way.
As I’m reading it, I’m like, I don’t feel like this. But I kept reading it, I kept reading it, I kept reading it and I’m like, okay, let’s just do a simple exercise. If this is how I was at my best, then I should at least fake it till I make it back to who I was. It really did pull me out of that funk reading that every day, because if this is how I was, and if you are who you are, the scar tissue and the pattern recognition of who you are never leaves you. It’s an imprint on your soul. It’s not going anywhere. So to be reminded that I come from a family of service doesn’t mean, because I can’t serve in this capacity, it doesn’t mean I don’t have a spirit for service.
Thinking about it in that way, and then moving the mind from, I can barely get up, I feel like I weigh a thousand pounds, I can barely put one foot in front of the other, talking to my sister about depression. She’s a clinical social worker, and so having her walk me through these types of things and how she’s seen people recover and not recover from depression and having those very real conversations.
All of a sudden I just felt a little lighter, just from reading words about me when I was at my best self. I didn’t even know how this would… you never know. Steve Jobs said, “You can’t connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards.” Looking backwards, I now know exactly why I was walked through this exercise with myself, because I do it with founders all the time, walking out of the depths of just dark places and overwhelm, and anxiety, and of course the classic imposter syndrome, all these things that people say that they have when they begin to fail forward.
In that moment, that was moment number one that truly got me to feel a little lighter on my feet. The second thing was drastic, and we all need these people in our lives. I didn’t ask for this person to be in my life. He just showed up. But this 0-6 retired, and for those people listening, an 0-6 is a captain. It’s the highest rank you can be on the officer side without going into being an admiral in the Navy. Once you’re an 0-7, you’re a one star admiral. 0-8, two star, et cetera, et cetera.
He saw me mustering, which is where early morning meeting takes place for the group that I was with. I was on crutches, I had a back brace. I found out my foot was broken, my rib was… all these things were just messed up. Another good example of how when you are momentum forward and then all momentum stops. All of these other things were wrong with me, but I didn’t know it at the time because you’re moving, momentum, adrenaline, I didn’t know that my foot was broken. I didn’t know that I had bruised this, that, or the other. I had no idea. I just kept going.
I’m sitting there looking fairly pathetic. That’s the only way I can actually describe myself. My head was down. My body language was down. It was about a week after finding that letter of recommendation, so I wasn’t quite picked up yet. This gentleman walks up to me. He just finished some PT, some physical training or PT, out on the beach. He was wearing a sweat band on his head, like a Richard Simmons old school sweat band, short shorts, these calf socks that were pulled up, and he just looked like an old salty sailor. I had no idea who this person was.
He looked underneath me and then up at me because my head was down. Once I saw this person looking at me… He was all fired up and he was pretty muscular for an older guy. He looked at me and he goes, “You don’t know this now, but this is the best thing that will have ever happened to you,” and just walked away. Just walked away. That was it. He kind of said, “Head up,” as he walked away. “Head up.” Then I just was like, who the hell was this guy? I later found out who that guy was, but I won’t go into details about who that was, but it was a really important person to the community. He had been through a lot. He had seen a lot.
For him to say that to me without me knowing who that was in that moment, it was this sharp reminder that hey, snap out of it. The feeling sorry for yourself does very little for yourself and others. Having him do that in that moment, to me, it was a straight up hockey stick curve trajectory after that. It’s almost like he shook my spirit and said, “Dust off the darkness, man. I see what’s in there, but stop letting this persist and let who you are shine through.”
Man, it really knocked the shit out of me. I remember going back that night and being like, that guy, he didn’t know me for Adam, but he was right. He wasn’t wrong. How do I make this the best thing that’s ever happened to me? Moving forward, that was a big shift, in not just my life, but my work and my career and my mindset. It just put me in a place to accept opportunity again because I felt that was worthy, and that’s what led to the next adventure of my life.
Bryan Wish:
Whoa. It sounds a bit spiritual in a way.
Joe Musselman:
No question.
Bryan Wish:
Just to have someone you don’t even know fully see you in a moment of despair, but let you know there’s better things ahead if you push through. Not push through in a way that just ignores it, but hey Joe, you’re going to respond and be better for this.
Joe Musselman:
Yes.
Bryan Wish:
I’m sure that was…
Joe Musselman:
It was perplexing, the level of certainty that he had in telling me that. That’s what what really caught my attention, because he said, “You don’t know this yet, but this will be the best thing that’s ever happened to you.” Who says that to someone who is clearly down and out?
Bryan Wish:
Probably someone who went through a very similar experience.
Joe Musselman:
No doubt. There was a moment, like a kinship moment, where I didn’t know this person, no idea what they had done, but I did know what they just said to me and I knew that it was true. That’s the thing. When somebody says something like that to you that is true, you can’t argue against it. You get defensive because you’re like how the F do you know this is going to be the best thing? Look at me. You get angry about it almost. Then you’re like, when you settle the emotions a bit, you’re like, no, he’s right. Whether I make this the best thing that’s ever happened to me or not make this the best thing that’s ever happened to me, either way it’s my choice. What do you prefer, the former or the latter? It was powerful.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah, no question. Well, we’re sharing some powerful stories here, Joe. What I’ve been so impressed about getting to know you, is just how you carry yourself. I’m sure it’s been consistent throughout your whole life. What I would love to learn a little bit more about is, we understand what maybe guided you in your past. Now we know about this moment that disrupted everything, maybe you knew about yourself, but it set a new course for your life and maybe changed you or evolved you into a new direction. What were the things that you started to do next? What were the new visions that you developed for your life and then acted upon? Take us down that journey and start where it feels right for you.
Joe Musselman:
For sure. If anybody’s listening to this who feels that something we’re saying is resonating with you and you don’t feel like you are doing what you’re supposed to be doing or where you’re supposed to be, or working on what you’re supposed to be working on, you can make it the best thing that’s ever happened to you if you make that decision to look deeply in yourself, because that’s what he really did for me, is that moment he reminded me that it’s the… I argue with SEALS and Raiders and SF guys all the time, that you didn’t join the SEAL teams to go jump out of planes, to go blow things up, to go hunt down terrorists. It’s not why you did it. Most look at me a little perplexed and they’re like, really? Because I’m pretty sure that’s why I did it. But no, you did it because above that, you have a spirit of service. The SEAL teams is a vehicle, and that’s the vehicle you chose to stir up that spirit of service. That’s always been with you.
Having a reminder of that from this gentleman, that I have a spirit of service, it was just the next thing. What’s next? What’s the next way for me to serve? Once I got to that point, mind you this is a six month journey of being down and out, and then, yeah, about a four to six month journey of being down and out. Then once I allowed myself to arrive in that place where it’s like, what’s next? Well service, of course. It doesn’t have to be the Navy, it doesn’t have to be the military, but I’m certainly going to serve.
Then thinking back for the reasons why I joined the Navy with the intention to become a SEAL, I wanted to be a part of a community that was just high performers, elite. If I’m going to sacrifice my life in the line of whatever, on behalf of a country that I believe in deeply to my core, I wanted to be around the best. I want to be around that comradery where we’ve all gone through something together, something very hard, which is basic underwater demolition school or BUDS.
But if that was what I was looking for, comradery, working with a high performing team, there’s probably thousands of people that are going to hear this, that are working with high performing teams, that are working across so many different places and sectors and industries. It doesn’t have to be the military. But the question is, what is that thing? But as soon as I opened my mind and my heart and my spirit of service again to the idea of moving on to what’s next, was I only tuning into that frequency of allowing myself to hear opportunity again. Because when you’re in that state, you’re not hearing for opportunity. You’re not listening for opportunity. You’re only hearing yourself talk, which is not good and positive.
But once I changed that, all of a sudden I started hear the same complaints moving in the same direction, which is, what are you going to do next? From one Navy SEAL to the next Navy seal, “Hey man, what are you doing when you get out? What’s next for you? What’s next for you?” I kept hearing the same answer. “I’m not sure, man. I don’t know what’s next.” Until I finally asked one of them a question, “Hey, is there a career transition institute for the Navy SEAL community?” One of them looked at me like I had 12 heads. They’re like, “Well, there’s this thing the military does called TAPs, which is just Transition Assistance Program, and then there’s another program and another, but nothing specific to seals and certainly nothing specific to the special operations community.”
Well, that was all I needed to hear. I spent the next six months on a listening tour when I was out of service, all of 2013, interviewing hundreds, 215 Navy SEALS across seven states over six months. I asked them all the same set of questions that had to do with what they did post their transition. As it turns out, there was not a career transition institute for the Navy SEAL and/or special operations community. For a hundred years, since the formation of special operations to the formation of the SEAL community in the 1960s, nothing had been formed.
I wanted to create that, and look what I got to do. I was able to serve a high performing, elite community. I was able to work alongside people who care deeply about each other, and that camaraderie was formed in the founding team of what is now honor.org or The Honor Foundation. We have eight campuses to date. We’ve served nearly 2000 families into their next great adventure post military service, raised tens of millions of dollars in a very short amount of time. My last year as CEO was 2019 February, and that was taken over then by Matt Stevens, who is a remarkable CEO and a former development group SEAL team six operator, Naval Academy grad, and a remarkable human being. The team’s up to about 20 to 25 full-time staff, thousands of volunteers.
But over that five to six year journey of me as CEO, I can tell you that if it weren’t for the injury, if it weren’t for a letter of recommendation, and if it weren’t for that individual telling me to quit feeling sorry for myself in lesser words, all of that impact would not have happened. I know now that was the absolute right path for me. I was never meant to be a SEAL at all. I was meant to serve the SEAL community and the special operations community in that capacity, and supporting them into their next great adventure in life.
Bryan Wish:
Well articulated, Joe. I loved what you said about you did this listening tour with hundreds of individuals who have served, and not to get to the future, but it was almost like your customer discovery.
Joe Musselman:
100%. That’s right. Well, I didn’t know how to build a business. My first Google search was how to be a CEO. My near second, third, and fourth had to do with eventually having me find the d.school at Stanford. The first rule of design thinking is empathize with the community you need to serve. To your point, understand the customer.
Bryan Wish:
In those conversations that you were having, you said six months, right?
Joe Musselman:
Six months, seven states. Yes.
Bryan Wish:
You were having hundreds of conversations and you realized that there was no program. Maybe this was your opportunity, maybe the answer that was meant for you all along. What were some of the gestures or comments that some of the people that you were interviewing said that made you feel inside that, wow, this is my next calling? Because I have to imagine, I don’t want to project, but something struck you on an emotional level to say, “This is it.” I’m curious, what was shared in those interviews that you had that showed you the opportunity to go serve on a very scalable level?
Joe Musselman:
It’s funny, even moving into venture capital, it’s the same feeling when you go to invest in companies that I had at that moment. I just didn’t know it was going to be that way. Again, that Jobs quote rings true so hard for me throughout my life, that you can’t connect things, the dots moving forward. You have to connect them looking backwards. But the pattern recognition of, let’s say, looking back in my life once realizing the trueness of the Jobs quote, what were all the moments in my life where I was absolutely losing track of time? I was just feeling so in the moment. Where in my life did I feel so present that I felt one with the work and what I was doing? Well, during those interviews, I was blowing through my savings over six months. I was staying in Vagabond Inns and Red Roof Inns and wherever I could, friends, couches, whatever, because with every story I heard, the business itself became that much more clear.
I met in Starbucks, in Paneras, in living rooms, dining rooms, kitchens. You can’t read about the child of a Navy SEAL, 10, 11, 12 years old and talking about their daddy’s transition, and while they’re talking about their daddy’s transition, they’re crying. When they start crying, then the spouse starts crying, and then the operator and the man starts crying. You’re sitting there in this moment where feelings and emotions are so high. It was countless.
If you want to talk about fuel, you want to talk about what gets you going, it’s sitting in living rooms and dining rooms with the people that you mean to serve, and they’re all telling you, “I wish I had what you’re going to create when I was getting out.” That’s fuel. I get goosebumps up and down and all around telling the story again because it brings you back to the moments. It brings you back to the conversations. It brings you back to the suffering. It brings you back to how someone could be a fearless war fighter, and they go from fearless to fear-filled in a second when they’re asked the question, “What’s next?” I wanted to solve that problem, or at least create a seamless transition so that they can move on to what was next for them. That’s why interviewing those operators was so very important.
Bryan Wish:
Let me ask you this. It’s vivid, right? I’m feeling-
Joe Musselman:
Oh, wait. Let me tie a bow on that. I forgot the one question. Bryan, I didn’t answer your question properly. One of the moments that rings true to me, I asked them a question, it was one of the last questions I asked them, “Can you tell me a moment of joy that you experienced throughout your transition?” I was very particular about my words. Looking back on the data and the responses, not a single one had an immediate answer. They would deflect, talk about maybe a few drunk nights or a party, a retirement party, or something to that effect. But no one said anything joyous or significant that brought them happiness throughout their transition. That is what I wanted The Honor Foundation to solve for them.
Now when you ask anyone about their transition and they went through THF, they say, “Oh, it’s The Honor Foundation, hands down.” That, to me is meaningful and it’s a legacy that I hope persists for hundreds of years.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah, wow. With no question, with no question. I’m feeling myself in the room with you.
Joe Musselman:
Yeah.
Bryan Wish:
So let me ask you this. You asked these questions that gave you incredible insight. What was the transition pre Honor Foundation? What were some of the answers that you were hearing of how people were transitioning, if at all? Whether good or bad, and then how did you create The Honor Foundation in a way to make that transition much easier?
Joe Musselman:
Of course I can talk about it simply now, but it was not simple then. But I can tell you, if anyone out there, and I need everyone to know this with an exclamation point, underline, I’m an investor now. The world needs more entrepreneurs than they need investors. We need more creators than we do people investing in creations. I would say that the moment that I realized that something needed to be created, that feeling is unlike any other motivation you could possibly imagine. I don’t even know how to explain it. Then once I felt that, it was a driving force to give it away, meaning, man, if these folks exiting this community can feel what I’m feeling, they will go on to continue to do extraordinary things, because what will the world miss out on if they don’t live up to their fullest potential leaving service? That’s the question that haunted me.
You have this talent pool that is extraordinary, obviously selfless, signing on dotted lines to give their life for something much bigger than themselves. Literally selfless. There’s no other definition for selfless than willing to die for something for others, and they don’t even know your name. That’s selfless. When I felt that, I needed to give it away, and that was truly a driving force. One thing to talk about with this community, what I was experiencing while speaking with them, they’re very Maslownian. They’re very, “I have to take care of my family, food, water, shelter.” We’re all like that. The whole point is to create this better environment so that those come after them and those that are alongside them, in that moment can reach true self awareness and autonomy through everyone’s efforts.
But the point is that they had this syndrome at the time, which I labeled first offer syndrome. They were so anxious to get the basics covered that they would take the first offer, the first job that was presented to them, and that led to a trajectory that was a bad path because they settled and they went against their behavior that got them to where they were. Did they settle when they said, “I want to be a Navy SEAL?” No. They say, “I want to be ordinary in the military, so I’m going to be a SEAL.” It doesn’t work that way. They said, “I want to do the hard things. I want the strenuous life. I want to do more than what’s expected of me, and I want to get paid next to nothing to do it.” That’s what they said.
Now when they come out to this new environment, they’re expected to fit in with mediocrity in a lot of ways, where people do less but get paid more, and it’s opposite world for them. It took a transition institute 12 to 15 weeks of having conversations to translate that how you believe is actually the right way to believe. If you do this first offer syndrome, if you let it get you, let me show you how it’ll actually impact your earning and your impact potential first, your impact potential over your career trajectory, and then your earning potential throughout a career trajectory.
No one teaches you this in college, that your first step is a big one and it puts you on a path. It’s okay to fail and it’s okay to make these mistakes, but don’t lose the core of who you are. We don’t change that much. I have a 2.9 month old son. I could write you three pages on what I know about this young boy. I know that 30 years from now, all three of those pages will be true. We don’t change that much. These formative years that these folks have went and served and watched friends pass away and pass on and their service, is quite formative. That’s one thing I would share about where they’re at in their mentality when they transition.
Bryan Wish:
Wow. I think it’s really honorable to be able to create a trajectory for somebody. Like what you said, they’re so Maslownian, because that’s how they were trained, but like you said, they didn’t sign up to be a SEAL to have an easy life. They knew what they were getting into, so why would they take the next step in a way that is easy? But they don’t know anything better because the next step is food, water, shelter. But you said “No, with The Honor Foundation we can create a path of for them that they can’t see, or make them think more critically to take on something that is challenging.”
Joe Musselman:
That’s right. It’s a bridge to base camp to the mountain you were meant to climb. They feel like they reach a cliff and there’s no bridge, and they have to go down before they can go up. That is not true. It’s not true for everyone listening here. It’s not true. Life is not a ladder. It’s a lattice. You have to find ways to go right, left, up, down. They proved that to me, even in my own career. It was, leaving THF, I left volunteering. It wasn’t the board or the community asked me to step away. That wasn’t the case. I am a zero to one person, and they reminded me of that. When something’s built and it’s up and it’s going and it’s moving and it’s living and it’s breathing and the momentum is strong, I want to go build again. That’s exactly what happened. I found a better man to be CEO. The executives were in place, the board of directors was in place, and then I went on another listening tour over the next year to find the next great venture.
Bryan Wish:
I want to get there. I know we have a little bit of time left. Maybe in a minute, or two minutes at most. You talked about these bridges nicely, or metaphorically. What were some of the bridges The Honor Foundation created to help these people transitioning? Then I want to move into what’s next, and lead people [inaudible 00:45:34].
Joe Musselman:
Sure. Well, first of all, they needed to remember that they’re professional bridge builders throughout their career. They think about their experience in a way that needs to be reframed upon their transition, that I only have this military experience on paper. How does that apply to private sector civilian experience over here? They think these two don’t combine, but when you think of your experience in bullets and on paper, it’s the wrong way to think of your experience. With every hard bullet, there is a soft skill that you’ve pulled out that is universal in transition.
For instance, I say to founders all the time, “No one’s going to leave you or this company because you lack the technical, the hard skills to run the business. They’re going to leave you because they don’t feel heard, they don’t feel loved, they don’t feel respected, they don’t feel valued. That’s why they’re going to leave.” No one says, “Oh, you don’t code well enough for this technical business. I’m out of here.” Nine out of 10 times people are leaving companies because they don’t feel heard, they’re not valued, they don’t feel respected, they don’t feel loved, they don’t feel valued. That’s what these folks have. They’ve had to live a career of compassion. You don’t think of compassion when you think of a war fighter.
But remember, anytime you hear anything about the SEAL community, it’s because something went drastically wrong. You don’t hear about the SEAL community because most things go really well, meaning they’re in, they’re out, and nobody knew they were there. Nobody had to fire a weapon. That’s when something is super successful. I would say that’s one thing that they needed to learn, is to translate those leadership skill sets, which are hard to put words to, and then where they can best implement those leadership skill sets in the civilian sector.
Bryan Wish:
Beautiful. I love how you extracted the essence out of what the SEAL program taught them and then brought that into a career to say you can use what you learned in a way that is meaningful. Joe, I know we have a little bit of time. I don’t want to skip over all the amazing things you did there, but I do want to give light to that next listening tour and have you share a little bit about where you are today, what you’re investing in and why. Take us down that lane and we’ll wrap in a good spirit.
Joe Musselman:
Yeah, of course. It’s easy to talk about what’s next, because it was only born out of the first experience of The Honor Foundation. One of the many things The Honor Foundation taught me was who I wanted to serve. Instead of asking yourself, if you’re listening to this, what you want to do next, you should ask yourself who’s doing something that inspires you? Because the who is traceable. These people have backgrounds. You can look into archetypes and character types and all these different things.
Knowing how much I loved working at The Honor Foundation, I just took the archetype of a special operations person and broke down what they are and what they believe. That is high performing, that is service oriented, that is I want to create and leave a large impact footprint on the world. When I broke down this personality type, I looked at it, and there’s one person on this planet that I think is the closest to a Navy SEAL, and that’s a founder. When I ask myself who I want to continue to serve, and what I mean by that is, founders aren’t out there signing on a dotted line to give their life literally to something bigger than themselves, but actually they are signing on a dotted line to give their life to something that’s greater than them in a metaphorical sense.
You don’t have time for friends and family and anymore when you’re building something that’s going to change the world. Who’s making great sacrifices out in the world that I want to be a part of and empower? I’m not good speaking on behalf of myself. I’m great at speaking on behalf of other people that are trying to change the world. That’s something you have to learn about yourself, your ego barrier. What is your ego blocking you from in work and life? I’m not good at talking about me. I’m great at talking about those that are trying to change the world. Instead of me in front of 40 fellows in a classroom, it’s me building a portfolio of 40 founders, where they get all my excitement, energy, network. Anything that is mine is theirs. It was a very easy transition.
Remember, I had no background in finance. I had no background in investing. I dropped out of accounting and statistics in college. No interest in that whatsoever. But when I did a direct soft skill translation, networks build businesses, networks empower founders. I’m great at layering networks, and then I complimented the part that needs to be an investor with great investor, with a great investor.
I went from no experience in investing to closing a $25 million fund that now invests in early stage technology companies between seed and a, to six months later having 50 plus million under management. Now we’re closing out our second fund, and now I’m going to raise a third fund next year that’s going to focus on some pretty important projects that our country needs to focus on. Again, I’m on another trajectory of serving others that are serving really large missions. It’s just an amplification of impact, was the only thing that was on my mind.
Bryan Wish:
Well Joe, coming to your event in San Diego, the passion just oozes out of you from the inside out. It’s been a joy getting to know you, just in the last year, but also then to hear the behind the scenes imprints of what’s led to where you are today. I just appreciate you sharing so vulnerably with us. For those listening, where can they find you if they’re a founder and they want to reach out, or if they’re in the military and want to say thank you, what’s the best place to connect?
Joe Musselman:
Oh, sure. You can visit the website, broom.ventures and please read about our team at Broom, my two co-founding partners, Dan and Jeff, the broader ecosystem. Then of course check out honor.org to learn more about the work that’s being done at The Honor Foundation. My email is very simple. It’s either joe@broom.ventures or joe@honor.org. You can reach out to me at either one anytime.
Bryan Wish:
Awesome. Well thank you for your time. This was quite special.
Joe Musselman:
Of course, Bryan. Yeah man, thank you for having me.